The day before Thanksgiving in 2009 I was invited to assist with the Nutty Putty Cave rescue of John Edward Jones. I ended up being the last person to see him alive, though at the time I arrived he was mostly unconscious. Since that time I have received numerous questions from reporters and curious individuals. Recently there has been an uptick in those requests as a result of some viral videos that have been posted. This is my attempt to provide information and help answer the questions that I am qualified to answer.
The day after the rescue efforts failed I wrote up a detailed account from my perspective of the rescue while it was fresh in my mind. Keep in mind that this is only one perspective from someone who arrived at the scene toward the end of the rescue efforts.
For a more well-rounded perspective I would encourage you to read Lindsay Whitehurst’s two-part Salt Lake Tribune article.
I will provide some commentary below my report with the footnote number indicated in report in parenthesis.
WARNING: This report contains descriptions of John Jone’s condition, passing, and post-mortem condition that could be disturbing to some readers. Out of respect for John and his family, I have tried to keep descriptions as general possible while addressing the challenges we were up against.
Nutty Putty Rescue Report
Written for SAR on November 25, 2009
I received the first call at 9:00 or 10:00 AM from Spencer Christian and Rodney Mulder that there was a rescue underway at Nutty Putty. They asked me if I could assist, but after asking a few questions about what was going on it seemed there were already enough people on site to carry out the rescue. I told Spencer and Rodney that if the rescue went on for a while and people started getting exhausted, and they absolutely needed me, that I would come.
About 5 hours later Spencer called me up and asked me to respond, saying that people were getting tired and they really needed small cavers. So I left work at about 4:00 PM, ran home to grab my caving gear and then headed out to Nutty Putty. I arrived at the site at about 6:00 PM and was put on the next group to go in the cave at about 6:30 PM.
When I arrived to the main passage at the opening of the Birth Canal people were working on the 4 to 1 haul system they had installed. I assisted for about 5 minutes, until it was decided that the system didn’t seem to be working (1) and the people by John Jones (the victim) needed a break. So the cavers that were working with John headed out.
On the way out I spoke with Andy Armstrong. I asked him how John was doing and he said that he was quickly going downhill, that he was in and out of consciousness and had started talking about seeing angels and demons around him.
As soon as they were out, we decided that I would head in first to assess the situation and see if I had any ideas for removing him, and then Debbie would work with John, since she had already spent some time with him getting to know him and she thought he would feel more comfortable with her.
So I went in first. In the back of the passage, right before you arrive at where John now is, there is an extremely tight crawl perhaps 18 inches wide and about 8 to 10 inches tall that takes a sharp 90 to 120 degree turn that you have to enter feet first. You have to maneuver yourself very carefully and you cannot see where your feet are standing until you pass the restriction. As I wormed my way in I felt my feet touch something soft which ended up being John’s feet. I felt them move and immediately lifted my feet and worked my way horizontally into the crack.
John’s feet were about 6 feet past the constriction and I was able to shift myself to the side of him and down the 4 foot wide fissure. After stabilizing myself by jamming my body into a narrower section of the crack I began speaking to John asking him how he was and introducing myself. There was no response. I shifted my position a little and tapped him on the leg. I could hear him breathing a deep gurgling breath, as though his lungs were filling with fluid. Then his feet shifted as though he were trying to maneuver his legs out of the crack he was jammed in. The kicking looked fairly frantic and after a second he stopped and it looked as though he had drifted into unconsciousness. (2) I continued tapping him on the legs and hip to see if I could get a response, but there was no response.
From there I spent a few minutes studying the passage, the positioning of John, and the rig that was set up, to see how we could get him out from here. It looked very bleak. I wondered if it was even possible to get him beyond this point. We could continue trying the rig, but it looked like he could only be lifted another foot or two in his current position because of where the webbing was anchored around his knees. After a foot or two his feet would hit the ceiling. And then once he reached the ceiling, there was no way to tilt him to a horizontal position. He would have to do it himself, but he was now unconscious. And even if we could get him into a horizontal position, he would then have to maneuver the most difficult sections of the passage he was trapped in. If he were conscious and had his full strength there was a minute chance he could possibly do it. But even if that was the case it looked grim. It was even difficult for me, weighing 125 pounds, to get myself out. At the bend where the restriction was I had to creatively contort my body to slip through. So to get a 210 pound, unconscious person out seemed pretty much impossible. The other option I saw was to use a jack hammer to widen the crack he was and remove a couple of knobs and then widen the tight spot, and then pull him straight out. He would be cut up very badly and probably end up with several broken bones, but if nothing else would work, that seemed like the best option.
Between me climbing out and Debbie taking my place there was a request to take the radio down to John so that his family could say some words to him. I think it was his father, mother, and wife who spoke to him, telling him that they loved him and were praying for him and that his father had given him a blessing. His wife mentioned a feeling of peace, that everything would be OK. She talked to him about 5 to 10 minutes before I told her that we needed to get back to working at getting him out.
At that point I crawled out to let Debbie squeeze past and take a look and assess the situation, but when she got to the tight hole, both legs cramped up and she was unable to make it down. At that point I decided to try using the jack hammer. So we waited for it to arrive and then I carried it down to where John was located. The tool was much heavier than I anticipated and to hold it up while wedging my body in the crack took everything I had. Even then, I couldn’t get a good angle on the rock because of the confined space and limitations in my own mobility and positioning. I only got three tries at a small lip just below Johns foot, but because of my angle the hammer just kept sinking into the sand at the side of the rock lip. I tried shifting my position, but it seemed like everywhere else I moved I couldn’t get a handle on the jack hammer because of it’s length. I only had about 2.5 feet of space between me and the rock that needed drilled and the jack hammer was probably 3 to 4 feet long. And then trying to hold it in such an awkward position wore me out pretty quick.
At that point I requested something smaller, but there didn’t seem to be anything available, and even if there had been I don’t know if a small hammer drill would have done much against the solid limestone walls. So we returned to the Birth Canal to have a quick meeting to decide what to do.
At that point it sounded like the drills were having issues or something like that, and the only option we had for drilling was to use the compressed air hammer. It took probably an hour or so to get hose down so we could use it. While we waited, we decided that perhaps the best bet was to try widening the hole from the top down, working our way towards John instead of away from him. Once the drill arrived Debbie, Max, and I spent about an hour and a half chipping at the passage a couple of feet above the tight spot – about 7 to 9 feet away from John. Areas where the rock was softer came apart fairly easy, but the harder formations took an incredible amount of effort. The main problem was that because space was so limited it was difficult to hit the rock at the right angle, so instead of chipping off the knob you would end up cutting a hole straight into the floor.
After an hour and a half we had only knocked off about a 18” x 4” section of rock on the ceiling and on the ground. And that was at the wider section of the passage. From that point on the cave was even tighter so that if you were laying in the passage and weighed 125 pounds you only had about 3 to 6 inches of space above you. Not very ideal for holding a jack hammer or even being able to choose the most effective angle. To continue the process, or even if we switched to micro-blasters, my estimate was anywhere from 3 to 7 days to get back to where John was. So once again we regrouped to decide what the next plan of action was.
By now it was close to midnight and we were asked to check vitals on John. They sent in a smaller paramedic to see if he could get back to John. In the event he couldn’t he showed me how to use the stethoscope and thermometer and where to check for a pulse. It was 11:30 PM when we left the group by the birth canal and ventured down the passage. It took about 15 minutes to get to John. I went first to check, just in case the paramedic couldn’t fit. I first tried the stethoscope and was only able to get it about 3 inches up and to the right of his naval. I didn’t hear a distinct heart beat, only some ruffling, fluttering sounds that were probably a result of me shaking as I tried to steady myself in an awkward location. I then jammed my hand between the rock and pressed as far up his torso I could go to feel for breathing. I didn’t think I felt anything, but again it was difficult to tell as I was shaking from trying to steady myself. His chest, where it was pressed up against the rock, felt warmer than the rest of his body and was sweaty, but every where else his body temperature was close to the temperature of the rock on the cave walls. From there I removed his shoe and attempted to check his temperature. The thermometer read nothing, which the paramedic said was because the temperature was below the range. As I took his shoes off and moved his feet I noticed that his feet and legs were significantly stiffer than they had been earlier and it was difficult to his leg more than a few inches.
I reported my findings to the paramedic above and then crawled out so that he could see if he could squeeze in. He was able to get dow to the point where he could feel his feet and confirm he had passed away. John Edward Jones was pronounced dead at 11:52, I believe it was.
At that point we decided to return topside for a debrief to discuss what our next plan of action would be. As everyone headed out, the paramedic and I went back in to take pictures of the passage and John’s position.
With John now deceased the effort required to remove his body would be exponentially more challenging. His stiffening body wouldn’t be able to make the bend through the tight spot above his feet, without significant alterations to the passage, which could take days or weeks with a hammer drill, perhaps slightly faster with micro-blasters. Any swelling would make it next to impossible to get him out of the crack he was wedged in until the swelling had reduced. There was no way to connect him to a rope other than by his feet. After a few days, we would need a hazmat suit and masks to work with the body, which would severely overheat any rescuers trying to get him out. With pants and a short sleeve shirt a person is usually dripping with sweat in about 10 to 15 minutes and can work for about 30 to an hour before needing a break. With a hazmat suit and mask you could probably work for 5-10 minutes before needing a break, not to mention the limit to your mobility. The body recovery idea looks very grim. (3)
Photos from the Rescue
NOTES
- The 4 to 1 haul didn’t work because there were so many twists and turns in the cave between where there was room for a group to stand and haul and John’s position that the friction, even with pulleys in place was enough to render the haul system ineffective.
- This was the moment he passed away.
- Ultimately it was decided it would be too risky to rescuers to attempt to remove the body, and to this day Nutty Putty Cave is the final resting place of John Jones.
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I really appreciate everyone’s kind and encouraging words in the comments below, as well as your questions. Unfortunately, I no longer have time to respond to questions and comments. I will continue to approve the comments you post as long as they are family friendly, but just know that I only log in to approve comments every few weeks.
Thanks again for your kind words!
Thank you for the explanation. John suffered horribly. Also, I cannot believe anyone would enter that passage the way he did?!?!
Yeah. It’s sad. Life pivots on very small hinges.
Thanks for taking the time to do this. I read an occasional sentiment regarding this case, that something doesn’t add up, and I feel that is partly why it is an enduring fascination, even among those who cannot articulate the sense of very little making sense. Besides the gross inconsistencies of almost every fact available to the public in this case, from the position of his arms to the location he was found, I find three things that lead me to wonder: while he was described as having retrograde amnesia, given the subject matter reportedly discussed between John and the attempted rescuers and for the long amount of time such conversations occurred, it would seem the only thing he couldn’t recall was how he got where he was, per Susie Motola; if the general consensus was John had hit his head, how does one do that in such a tight space? His head was reportedly not resting on an object but free within the fissure. Secondly, John was quoted by Ryan Shurtz as saying he couldn’t believe he was on his head, and when Ryan asked John how he came to be on his head, his response was, “Why did you guys put me here?”. In all quoted articles, the sentence immediately following is ‘keep fighting”, which was said by his wife, Emily, meaning we are left without an answer as to what would have been my obvious questions to a man I’m trying to save, “Who put you here, John?”, “What happened?”. It seems he was making perfect sense to Ryan, despite moments of panic. Third, it is reported that John was found without his headlight. Was foul play ever considered? At the very least, if John had no help hitting his head, the official narrative that he believed he was in the birth canal strains credulity as from my observation of the map, it would have been unmistakable, given that boy scouts and numerous others are photographed coming through the famous passage. It seems far more likely the 4 were looking for something depicted on the 1965 geological survey past Ed’s push, and whatever that rumored place or thing might be, this case was used as an unassailable pretext to closing the cave to all, and in such a manner as to prevent any possibility of contradicting the obviously flawed official narrative.
Those are all great questions Joshua, that we will never know the answers to.
One thing I will add is that the scouts who were stuck in previous rescues were trapped in a different section of the cave. There are lots of tight passages in Nutty Putty. With the other rescues I was called out on, the scouts were trapped in the “Scout Eater” passages just past the “Birth Canal” beneath the “Aorta Crawl”. Those passages are horizontal more gradually sloped and the boys were trapped feet first rather than headfirst like John. Most articles say the youth rescued were stuck in the “Birth Canal”, but the “Birth Canal” was one of the easier squeezes. It would have been more accurate to say they were trapped in the “Birth Canal” area, since at that point we hadn’t resurveyed the cave and given the name of the passage most visitors got stuck in, “The Scout Eater”.
Given the nature of the “Ed’s Push” area it would have been improbable that someone would have forced him back there or that he could have knocked his head hard enough to get a concussion. Most of the distorted things John said would have been a result of poor circulation from hanging upside down for a long period of time, which ultimately lead to his demise. Plus I imagine that John would have said something to the rescuers about being forced back in there, once he was certain his captors
But John DID say something to one of his attempted rescuers, to Ryan Shurtz, as per the Salt Lake City Tribune, as I quoted in my earlier message. I, too, think it improbable he was forced “back in there”; the easiest thing would be to let him do all the work, specifically under the delusion he was going in the right direction, which fits a piece of the official narrative. I don’t think it is objectively honest to assume that as long as John was speaking about his faith, singing a hymn, or talking with his family that he was clear, and distorted by his condition when that talk turned to something perhaps darker. Susie Motola stated that John had no memory of how he ended up in his fatal position; John’s reply to Ryan asking him how he ended up on his head is either all a man with no memory of the origin of his predicament could recall or a direct refutation of Motola’s claim. Add to this the conflicting accounts from the 3 others in John’s party as to how he was found, with one being Josh Jones following just behind his brother, urging him onwards to find a place to turn around, and some form of foul play merits consideration, even if in the end it was simply 4 people who were scared because they felt some culpability in John’s death, knowing exactly where they were and what going in Ed’s push potentially meant.
You say the rescues of the scouts led to the naming of a hazardous passage with the new map, one not included on the original 1965 geological survey. However, the new map omitted previously known sections of Ed’s push, and it has been stated this omission was done to discourage exploration of the tight and potentially dangerous passages of this side of the cave. There is no congruency between diagramming a hazardous passage for safety and omitting another under the same concern. It is reported that Brock Clark was stuck in the same area as John, a now “unmapped” portion of Ed’s push, and was upside down as well. But nothing was done after he was successfully freed to further highlight this potentially fatal area, even when it was closed in part due to this incident, and reopened years later with a renewed focus on safety.
What was Chris’s Crawl and the Crystals diagrammed in the original survey, omitted from the new map?
Mad respect to you for going down in that tight squeeze, risking your life. I remember going there once when I was a teenager… had a blast. I don’t think I pushed through the birth canal or any narrow passages but enjoyed exploring & climbing around. Any similar caves that you enjoy/recommend? I like the Lava Tubes in Snow Canyon, just wish they were bigger.
If by the “new” map you are referring to the one I was the cartographer for, we didn’t intentionally omit anything. What you see on that map is everything we surveyed. During the survey I crawled down to where John’s head would have rested, only I was in their feet first rather than head first. I felt around with my legs and could feel that the passage possibly continued on the floor, but it didn’t seem safe to go back there and I wasn’t in the mood to push it, so I marked it as a possible lead.
Also we didn’t name the “Scout Eater” passage to deter people. We named it that because some scouts and other people got stuck there and we thought it was a fitting name for a tight passage that seemed to devour scouts. Anyone who claims we had alternative reasons for naming it such are misled.
As for Chris’s Crawl and Crystals diagrammed in the original survey, I probably left those off because most likely the crystals would have been destroyed and with Ed’s Push and Chris’s Crawl in the same twisted area it was difficult to tell which one was connected to which section. It’s been a long time since I drafted the map, so maybe there was another reason I excluded that, but that reason would not have been deceptive or leading.
Sounds like you are really struggling with this whole rescue. Hopefully my responses above help clarify some things. I wish you the best in finding closure.
Super interesting read, I’m sure the renewed interest in the incident has brought back some intense memories. Thanks for supplying this write-up and shedding some light on the situation.
One thing I find interesting, and it’s good to see a definite answer here in the comments: several videos (including the first one I’d seen on the topic) mention that “nobody had ever been over the ledge beyond the corkscrew”. It seems there’s a lot of general confusion on the number of ledges in Ed’s Push. Some sources claim that Brock and even Dale Greene (RIP) were stuck in the same place as John some 5 and 45 years prior, but from what I can gather it seems they weren’t nearly as far along as John got.
Hi Brandon.
Thanks for your account on the nutty putty tragedy.
To be honest, I have come across this story only lately (I dont live in the US), and it has affected me so much to the point of leaving me very heavy and sad feelings inside.
I have researched a lot about the rescue, read the technical details and the report on the official site of the cavers.
I feel very sorry for what happened to John, he was so young, leaving a wife and two small children, and his family. I also feel sorry that she was bullied for remarring. She’s so young and she basically had to rebuild her life, with two small kids, it isnt easy. People making fun of her are insensitive and they basically dont understand that she’s gonna love him forever, and she will always feel that grief and pain inside.
If I can, I would like to ask you a few technical things that have always made me guess about how the rescue went.
1) even putting claustrophobia aside, how do you guys manage to climb up those small passages during an exploration? I have seen the CBG channel, the action adventure twins and some other footage about caving. It amazes me how cavers already know if they can make it through a very small passage or not. For instance when I saw the action adventure twins video about them having to have their face sideways to crawl, or see how they used their feet to make those small steps to help crawl. How do you do that? really? and how does a caver climb back backward on a sort of, upward going crevice, only using feet and hands? I find it impossible. Even imagining how you guys have helped John during the rescue. There is a diagram where even the rescuer has to sort of, descend a bit downwards to reach John’s feet. how do they do that? And how were they able to move the rope, lift his feet, position themselves to help him? I find it all… impossible. I mean, I could never do that. I imagine that must take lots of physical strength. If the place where the rescuer stood was horizontal I could understand a bit, but in some diagrams they showed how even the rescuer himself was in a downward position too. Can you explain which diagram is the right one?
https://www.reddit.com/r/SweatyPalms/comments/6yjog3/spelunker_john_jones_stuck_upside_down_in_a_cave/#lightbox
or
https://punto.mx/2023/12/20/nutty-putty-la-cueva-que-fue-sellada-con-un-hombre-dentro/
the second one seems a bit more horizontal for the rescuer. the first one is virtually impossible for me to imagine to help someone when I am myself, the rescuer, in a almost vertical position.
2) do you think that he could have been saved, with some other ways, with more time, or maybe with the means we have today in 2024? Or do you think the outcome would have been the same?
I personally think that maybe even today we would have had the same outcome. I remember reading that even his brother was very worried about the position he got stuck, it seems like even Ryan, according to some source, had to fight back tears. Honestly I sort of think that they already knew the seriousness of the accident as soon as they saw the angle he was stuck in.
trying all the possible ways, the geometry was against it. even by breaking his legs, how would he make it through the rest of the passages? Seems virtually impossible. Even when the rescue team lifted his feet, honestly I dont know how he could be taken out, because there was no room to keep on lifting/pulling him. I thought and thought about other ways but I couldnt come up with any other idea. Sometimes I wonder why Ryan said he was gonna get him out, when he himself saw how bad the angle/positioning was.
Even the drilling the rock idea seems not practical because debris would end up downwards.
What do you think Brandon, could it have been different today? some other ways, ideas, or maybe new tools to work the rock around him? Sometimes I think that there was really no other way to save him, even by pulling, because his feet always touched the ceiling, and by breaking his legs he’d still be stuck in the cave because he would not be able to crawl outside.
3) do you think that the administration of the cave is responsible for his death? I think so, somehow. It would have taken just a sign or two stripes in the shape of an X to close the passage of Ed’s push.
As I have seen on the maps, Ed’s Push and the Birth Canal are basically at a sort of crossroads. They look alike, people are easily confused by their entrances. I dont blame John, but the people responsible of the cave for not closing the entrance to Ed’s push. It didnt take much to at least signal the danger, sort of “DANGER! Dead end tunnel” or just to block the entrance with some stripes or whatever.
4) how are the members of the rescue team dealing with the aftermath? are they still affected by it? I was very emotionally impressioned by Susie’s, Ryan and your committment to get him out. I know Ryan was maybe the one who spent the most time with him down the cave, and I wonder how he’s doing today. If he is at peace now or maybe he feels at fault for not being able to save him. Has the accident changed the way you guys approach caves? Like, do you ever think “it could happen to me too”? do you guys keep in touch with each other or with the Jones’ family?
5) Someone wrote that Ryan said that the rope basically was cut by the rock, and that the webbing was intact. Which one is the true version? The press said that the pulley system failed, but someone claims Ryan said that the rope failed. Honestly, even if just the rope failed, everyone seems to agree that the angle of the crevice made it impossible to get him out.
6) another rescuer, Andy, wrote on a cave forum that “not letting the rescuers retrieve the body was an insult to them, and that the decision to let his body there was not unanimous”. I wonder how could they retrieve his dead body, when everybody knows that if it was impossible while he was alive and could help them? I really dont understand what Andy means. Was there some other way to save him that we dont know yet today?
5) Dale Green said something very obscure and upsetting about the cave, something like “some things have happened there that we will never know”. What did he mean?
6) Brock Clark, Chris Morrow and many others have been stuck in that cave, not sure if Ed’s push or some other part. Why were those nasty, narrow parts not closed or at least signalised by the administration? It could have been easily prevented. I think Brock Clark was stuck and the beginning of the rock that pinned John’s feet, right? He could have been saved cause he had his stomach on the rock before the 60′ angle, and he was a teen, so smaller than John.
7) many people on the internet have said that one of John’s mistakes was to exhale while crawling in the narrow passages. But on the adventure twin channels you see that many times they exhale, they take very nasty and claustrophobic crevices, and they always manage to get out, even by crawling with their feet upwards (how do they do that??). So why nobody says a thing about them, and they’re experts, while everybody criticizes John for that mistake? It seems like even many expert cavers do that exhale/strive themselves to make it through the narrow passages even if they dont fit.
8) On the movie the last descent, they show how John basically slips down the downward crevice, but on the internet they say he simply continued thinking it was the birth canal or just wanted to rotate himself once he found a wider opening. which one is the correct hypothesis?
9) seeing the pics you posted about how tight the passage is, basically a hand high or a boot, it’s honestly scary. I couldnt even fit my head down there. It’s just… I dont know how you guys do that. The courage it must take just to go down there, the fear, the lack of oxygen/dark. I would panic, I’m sure. how do you do that?
10) do you think that drilling or jack hammering the place around John’s feet might have helped?
11) do you think that the rescue efforts/strategies could have been managed better? I have read that the pulley system was used only after several hours, about 19 hours until they lifted his feet… couldnt they speed up the process a bit more? The doctor had said that usually in that position people last 8 hours, John resisted for much longer, gathering his strenght and will to live, and yet it didnt work to find a solution. do you think that with time eventually, if you kept using the pulley system, he would have been able to get him out or were there many other stakes? I have read that after they lifted his feet, the rescuers assumed he was some hours away to being unstuck (which seems very optimistic, and clashes with the negative verdicts that Josh, John’s brother, and Ryan had while seeing him in that position right away). I dont understand if he could have been saved with lots of work, or if it was eventually impossible given the angle and the bad positioning of the cave.
I’m sorry for all these questions, I know they are repetive and very detailed but also confused, like I am myself, but I genuinely care about this story so much, it really affected me a lot, and I hope I didnt bother you with all these questions. I have nobody else to ask to (I mean, you were a rescuer, an expert caver, I live in Europe, I dont do extreme sports, and I dont know anyone who takes up extreme sports, so I dont have anyone else to ask to. You, Susie, Ryan are comparable to heroes in my opinion. The most extreme thing in terms of sports that I have experienced is that once I was fishing at night on the rocks and got stung by a stingfish. But being alone in a narrow cave with my claustrophobia cant be compared to how much safer the sea at night looks to me. I have been caught in a current between two huge lines of rocks, which dont let you swim away, and where I live there arent sharks. So everything relatively safer than caving, that’s why I dont understand the passion in this sport, and I would be curious to know about what prompts people to undertake it). By the way, I hope I havent bothered you, and I cant wait to read your replies. I apologize in advance for my grammar mistakes in english, I am a non native speaker. Thank you in advance!
* I mean Scorpionfish, not stingfish. I dont know why the autocorrect came up with that.
Joshua is bordering on conspiratorial reasoning, if you ask me.
My questions are about the attempted pulley system. I can’t seem to find a definitive reason as to why it failed. Some articles and diagrams suggest the rope nearest John was wrapped around a sort of natural rock archway formation, and that’s what failed and injured one of the rescuers. Other sources suggested it was a nearby bolt failing. Some say both happened. This attempt seemed to be ‘working’ as they managed to pull John up some distance before the system failed. If the walls were known to be brittle, why would they trust the rock formation? Why did it fail, and how can future teams know what to do so it doesn’t happen again?
I think I’m most confused about the lack of closure. Once the dust settles for most tragedies, from an airliner failing to a small mountain rescue, you can find information pretty easily that very clearly traces why the failure occurred, what steps led to this situation, and explicit details or knowledge that can be shared to prevent it from ever happening again. But for John it seems like there’s conflicting information everywhere as to why the rescue failed, and it feels like the rescue team parted ways afterwards and never spoke of it again (I imagine completely untrue though). While cave incidents like this are exceptionally rare (it seems), it still doesn’t seem like a waste of time to have a plan available to share to future rescue teams. Then rescuers would know how to spend their very limited time, rather than having to guess with techniques that have never been attempted before in a situation that has never or rarely arisen before. (some articles suggest 4 pulley systems were attempted – wouldn’t it be best to know for certain which one will work beforehand?)
I am not being accusatory or attempting to lay blame or guilt on any of the rescuers. It is clear everyone did their best in an impossible situation and each one of them (and you) are heroes. Perhaps the answer is very easy, and it was just truly too difficult a task to rescue John without unlimited time – time being the biggest enemy here. I admit I don’t like that answer very much.
Wall of text short, it just feels like John’s story ended with little attempt to show that there were lessons learned. It doesn’t feel like rescue teams would be any more prepared for this situation should it happen tomorrow in another cave. Maybe there are plans that exist and they just aren’t too public, and my fears are unfounded.
You nailed it. We could have gotten him out if he had gone in feet first and we had more time. But since he entered head first and because the human body cannot survive upside down for extended periods of time we were severely limited. Also, search and rescue had lengthy debriefs after the incident assessing what worked and what didn’t work and what they needed to do different the next time such an incident occurs. Not sure if there are records of those somewhere.
The limitations of the pulley system were due to the large amount of friction on the rope due to all the turns it had to snake through. The bolt failed not because of brittle rock, the rock was super solid, but because the person who placed the bolt was handed the wrong sized drill bit. But even if the bolt had not popped out the friction would have made it impossible to move John and if they had managed to turn John around once he changed his position the toxicity of his blood at that point, from hanging upside down, would have killed him.
I’ll do my best to answer your questions below:
1. If you are upside down in a tight passage it is extremely difficult to get yourself out and requires a lot of fitness, strength, and technique. John did not have that when it comes to caving skills and strength. If you are in a passage like that feet first you basically jam your body in the space and slowly inch your way upward or downward.
2. Drilling or digging back to where he was would have taken weeks, but it would have been possible. Because he was upside down we only had a few hours before his body would shut down. If he had been upright we would have easily been able to get him out. Given his position and the time constraints we were basically given an impossible task in getting him out.
3. Caves are inherently dangerous and anyone who enters a cave enters at his or her own risk. No one but John is responsible for his death and the choices John made were not out of negligence, but ignorance, due to his lack of experience.
4. I think most rescuers have moved on and are not affected by the incident anymore at this point.
5. Dale died several years ago, so we may never know what he means or if that statement is even true. He never mentioned anything like that to me and I knew him pretty well.
6. No. With rigor mortis and decay it would have been virtually impossible or very hazardous to remove his remains.
7. Exhaling had nothing to do with it. He was trapped upside down and didn’t have the strength to get himself out of his position.
8. The passage where John was trapped inclined 70 degrees down an 8 or so foot slope to a floor and then made an abrupt 90 degree turn into a horizontal passage of unknown length. I don’t know what lie beyond the 90 degree turn and down the horizontal passage and I’m not sure anyone did besides John. But based on the fact he was trying to get out it must have ended or gotten too tight. That could have happened a couple of feet beyond that turn or ten or more feet. I never went in it when I was surveying that part of the cave because it seemed too tight to explore or push.
9. You just learn to let go of that fear and relax.
10. No. There wasn’t enough space for a jackhammer or drill where he was trapped. You would have to start drilling or hammering 20 feet down passage and work your way toward him. It took us about 2 hours to knock of 2 inches of rock. It is very solid rock.
11. In hindsight yes, but there is always something you could do better. Everyone did the best they could knowing what they did at the time. I think even with the lessons learned it would still have been impossible to get him out in the position he was in, unless everything was in place within a hour of him getting stuck when he had strength to help in the rescue efforts, but that would have been virtually impossible since it would have taken more than an hour to get rescuers out to the cave that quickly. Once he was exhausted after struggling for an hour or so, it became waaaaay more challenging to get him out.
Hopefully that answers your questions. Thanks for asking them.
Hi, Brandon. Thank you so much for your insight, compassion, and openness to share. I can’t imagine it’s been easy, given the sensationalism and how easily anything reported about this tragedy can go viral and disrupt the lives of those involved.
I went to go describe the weight of that responsibility as “crushing”, decided that wasn’t appropriate, and then thought of describing it in terms of an Atlus metaphor. “The weight of the world”… Yeah. Nah.
I decided to give up and let whoever reads this derive whatever poetic irony or black comedy they may from my inability to describe how terrifying I find it to be in the position of divulging information about this case to the eternally ruthless, yawning maw of public vitriol online, lol.
Seriously, though—especially considering the harrassment John’s widow has received… I’d be too scared.
I know Ryan Schultz has removed comments or insight he’s made about the rescue attempt, and it wasn’t archived, so that’ll be lost to history. While he has his reasons and I respect that and respect *him* a lot, I’m glad you’re now talking about it.
I was curious about your perspective after reading posts yesterday on a popular social media website where someone, claiming to be an old friend of yours at the time, provided their own recollection of events and what it was like to provide moral support over the phone with you during the rescue. They didn’t name you, but they confirmed, and they seemed credible. (To my knowledge, you have likely fallen out of touch over the years.)
I guess you have to be both brave and pretty damn intelligent/thoughtful to do what you do, though. I greatly value your time and your contributions, so I did buy the .PDF as a means of providing some more substantive thanks, and encourage others to do the same. You’re doing the Lord’s work, here.
I find this whole case comforting and terrifying in an unquantifiable dialectic.
Comforting, because what happened to John was an anomaly in terms of caving, and, with foresight, training, and experience, caving isn’t nearly as terrifying as I’d thought. That’s probably not the conclusion most laypeople with casual interest in this case walk away from.
I’m cleithrophobic (fear of being trapped), but not claustrophobic (fear of tight spaces), and after reading everything on this case, I feel like it’d be perfectly safe for me to take a guided, supervised, well-planned tour of a beginner cave. I’m a beginner geocacher, and I might even go in a cache in a cave, if it were safe.
It’s also terrifying, because, besides the obvious, I think what happened to John could have happened to any of us laypeople without the benefit of hindsight: Exploring a beginner-friendly cave for the sake of nostalgia while on a family trip, and making an inexperienced explorer’s mistake after very much, quite literally “taking a wrong turn”.
There are some things we’ll never have answers to, with regard to what John was thinking, or if he really did, as reported by other members of his caving party, mistake Ed’s Push for the Birth Canal, and those answers died with him. In his position, though, I can easily see myself pressing on through Ed’s Push, reassured first by the promise of a wider area up ahead, owing the difficulty in navigability to my size, it having been over a decade since my last time spelunking, experience having only ever assured me of my safety.
My questions are all kind of all over the place, so I’ll ask them in clusters:
1.) If that is indeed what happened (and again, we’ll likely never know), is that an easy mistake to have made—to have gone into Ed’s Push instead of the Birth Canal? What would the “fork” have looked like, between the Birth Canal and the Ed’s Push area? I also assume John didn’t exactly have his map out in front of him.
Even the best 2D map makes it hard to tell, since it doesn’t capture all dimensions, or what the “fork” coming between . I’ve seen reports that the map John would have been given didn’t have the “Ed’s Push” area charted, and that few people knew about it. I assume John would have been given the map that you drafted, and he checked out on all counts as far as having received appropriate safety information in order for him to be granted access to the cave at all.
While I know you can’t verify anything without a time machine, I trust the cave’s cartographer on this subject more than anyone else.
2.) What do you know about the 2004 rescue of then-16 year-old Brock Clark, and were you involved then? From my understanding, he had also been trapped in the Ed’s Push area.
On a related note, if you happen to know, or can speculate (and I recognize that speculation, in your position, is dangerous), was there specific safety protocol in warning explorers about the danger of Ed’s Push, vs. the relatively much safer Birth Canal?
My understanding is also that, in general, cavers of all skill levels didn’t even really go into Ed’s Push. Even properly navigated, it’s too difficult, boring, and nothing in it that isn’t boring would be worth dying for the chance to discover.
3.) What kind of safety measures are in place, when it comes to caves like Nutty Putty, where there are both areas accessible to and safe for beginners, and also much more dangerous, advanced skill level areas? The only one I know of is the famously effective “reaper warning sign”.
4.) If you don’t mind, how has this case, and the reaction to it, affected your life with regard to caving and exploration, if at all? Do you, personally, feel as though this case, particularly the media and Internet sensationalism behind it, has been unfairly stigmatizing of caving and speleology? Have there been a lot of positives in advancing the discussion of caving safety, especially where inexperienced and beginner cavers are concerned?
5.) Do you, or did you, feel any sense of loss over Nutty Putty being closed? Personally, while I 1000% agree with the decision, esp. since it was John’s grave, it is a shame. It seemed like a great cave system and source of public funding. Human nature is to anthropomorphize things, and I kinda feel bad for the cave having such a terrible legacy.
You should have my email from my purchase, so feel free to contact me privately, if you’d rather.
Lastly, I’d like to say something less to you, and more to anyone else who might be reading this, and offer my perspective. I may do so in another comment.
Couldn’t the place where John was located be excavated directly from the surface downwards with construction equipment?
Since english is not my language ,I hope I wrote it correctly and I hope you can answer it because this question is going to eat my brain 🙂
That would definitely be possible, but would probably cost millions of dollars to bore a hole wide enough for a person and the survey data we collected is probably accurate within 3-5 feet. So there is a possibility the bore could be several feet off and totally miss him. Also it would take months to bore a hole that size as deep as they would need.
Here are my answers to your questions:
1. Yes. It is easy for people to get turned around and confused in caves. Even when you have a map it can be difficult sometimes to make out what is what. When people claim that any part of Nutty Putty is uncharted I think they are making a very naive claim. There have been so many thousands of people in that cave since 1950’s that it would be highly unlikely that anything is uncharted. Maybe just not mapped. But it makes a much better news story if you say “uncharted”.
2. My brother helped with the Brock Clark rescue. That rescue was in the Scout Eater passage. As for warning people about Ed’s Push or any other area, the entire cave is hazardous in different ways, so really the best that cavers can do is warn people that caving is inherently dangerous and it is not a good idea to visit a cave unless you are going with an experienced caver. The problem there is that a lot of people who went to Nutty Putty frequently considered themselves “experienced”. When we surveyed Ed’s Push it just wasn’t significant or promising enough to warrant pushing ourselves to go any further.
3. The only safety measures are those that visitors bring themselves, preferably they are going with an experienced caver. I think there was a form they signed before they could get the key that warned them of the risks and encouraged them to go prepared and know what they are getting themselves into, but I highly doubt that many people read and considered those warnings seriously.
4. The Nutty Putty incident had no impact at all on my caving activities. Yes, the news did what it always does and that is sensationalize the story with a couple of facts mingled with speculation and misinformation. I usually expect that, so I’m not really surprised or put off. They need to sell ads so they can stay in business and no one will read new articles that don’t catch their attention. As for advances in conversations around caving safety, I don’t think it had any impact. Those who are going to be safe and ethical cavers will continue to be and those who are going to do whatever they want regardless of what anyone says will continue to do so. I think we just have to accept that no matter how logical we can be in trying to convince others of something that seems reasonable, there will always be those who don’t want to hear it and will vehemently disagree, and there is nothing we can do about that. The best thing cavers can do is to keep cave locations secret.
5. Yes it was a shame. Cavers saw Nutty Putty as a sacrifice cave that was completely destroyed by all the visitors, however it helped to keep people’s attention off other more sensitive and dangerous caves. Plus, it was a fun sporty cave to take beginners and teach them about safe caving practices.
Hi Brandon. Thanks for educating us on the nutty putty cave system. Something that has never been 100% clear to me is whether you have to go through the birth canal to reach Ed’s push, or whether they both had separate entrances?
Thanks in advance.
As a person who has faithfully documented this event to askers on Quora I am grateful that you made this tell-all blog post that I can share there, for those who still need answers, because this essentially answers everything. I also enjoy your cave photography most of all. It is gorgeous and you are incredibly talented. Lastly I am so grateful that you help in rescues when it’s needed, and most of all, that the rescue team has been able to cope over the years with the aftermath of the event. I know the event traumatized a lot of us who only recently heard about it, with all the graphic descriptions of it. I was horrified at the thought that so many kind helping souls would have to suffer long-term for this event.
Keep caving and keep taking your gorgeous pictures, and regards to your beautiful family.
This is going viral again- fair warning. Thank you for this account and leaving a link to the other accounting. I read this story and I was immediately saddened at how normal it all was- meaning a tragic event with no blame or wrongdoing. People always look for someone to be wrong when something bad happens, what could they have done right? Nothing. His situation was completely normal. He felt comfortable and was familiar enough in caving systems, he was with family. I can plainly see how comfort and skill *could* be his only mistake, but not to place blame- But rather to use as a warning. If John was expecting to be in the birth canal, he would have known that it let’s out. “If you just suffer and make it through this tight spot, you will be relieved of it.” Even if he knew it wasn’t the former, thousands of people as they say have been tromping through this cave, his skill in maneuvering allowed him to access a part that most people can not, he wouldn’t have been expecting it to end, so where most people who feel danger or that they are at an impasse may call for help there-he pushed on. Head first, the only way he could at that point. The next paragraph has nothing to do with John’s specific case, but in general.
Personally I think there is a real problem in our society with safety, and that is that we are warned about safety incessantly, everything has a warning, even your coffee being hot. So we are not only dulled by it, but ignore it. Labeling beginner, easy, or the like gives people a false sense of security. We should be afraid, we should be cautious. I don’t think we should be told what is safe and what isn’t at all, that’s not realistic- but I stand by it. I think we’d have a lot more respect for nature and for danger if we didn’t know what to expect.
Hi, thank you so much for posting this! You talked about being a cartographer on a surveying trip into nutty putty cave and stated “During the survey I crawled down to where John’s head would have rested, only I was in their feet first rather than head first. I felt around with my legs and could feel that the passage possibly continued on the floor, but it didn’t seem safe to go back there and I wasn’t in the mood to push it, so I marked it as a possible lead.” This just made me wonder has the caving community ever thought of using a scope for those type of areas? Something like the scopes people use to see pipe blockages. My thinking is if surveyors used scopes, then they could confirm whether or not a passage goes some where.
First I want to say thank you for the details of this situation as it does shed some understanding of how difficult this rescue was.
So my question relates to cave mapping. Do go-pro cameras get used to facilitate a better visual the the passageway(s). In my perspective, this tool would give the best advantage to understanding the complexities of the cave system, tunnels and passageway. Not only that, but would imagine that it decrease the incidents encountered by cave explorers such as the one with John Jones which was very unfortunate and sad.
Hi Brandon, just have a question about the pulley system. What exactly happened that caused the failure in it? I have heard many different reasons why and I’d like to hear it from someone who was directly involved in the rescue
I don’t think we’ll ever know for certain. I think the most likely scenario is that they used the wrong size of drill bit to set the bolt. Probably off by a millimeter or something like that.
We used Suunto survey instruments and tape measures back then. Today surveyors use Brics which take all the readings we need to build a map. If you are interested in cave survey check out my Minimalist Cave Cartographer course here https://www.brandonkowallis.com/courses/.
Go-pros wouldn’t allow you to collect the measurements you need to build out map.